Category: Let's talk
There is no call for people calling cl's Nazi, power hungry morons and the such just because they carry out the tasks of banning someone for breaking a TOS in which each and everyone of you agreed too upon gaining membership.
Also I want to go on to say that we are not required to give warnings. We have and we do this as a service to you, because we realize that people do make mistakes. However this is at our own digression and if we are going to get it thrown in our face because we have done this in the past maybe we as staff should take a look at this.
And so that you knwo these are my own thought on these two subjects they are not put out by the staff they may or maynot agree with me. But felt they should be posted.
thanks doug
But what I have an issue with is that some people seemed to get banned for infractions that they should be banned for, but others seem to get away with murder. i'm not the only one who sees this, but I will speak up about it. It seems like to me, that there is a lot of consistency issues with enforcing the Terms of Service or a standard code of conduct for all members, if you will.
I feel that everyone needs to be subject to following the Terms of Service. After all, we agreed to them when we signed up for membership here. But I feel that having partiality for certain members of any kind is wrong. Also, there needs to be a standard code of conduct that all CL's and even the admins will enforce and judge all infractions, and that there should be no deviations. i'd like to see more fairness around here and a more unified leadership. I do not like to see one person getting banned for something and the other allowed to reign terror. What is good for the goose is also good for the gander.
I'll more than likely be banned for stating my feelings on the matter, and if i'm banned for that, then what can I say. I just feel it right to be honest, and I'm honest, even if the subject is one that is difficult and risky to approach. I just hope that my words will be heard, and I also am not stating any of this in disrespect of any of the CL's or the Admins. I'm a moderator of various groups, thus know how difficult it can be at times. All I'm stating is what is of great concern not only to me but also to many others who may be feeling afraid to speak up in fear of repercussions for expressing their concerns.
so who got banned in the first place?
shaun, i heard cam aqa shark got banned but i've not been to his profile to confirm this. it's just a rumour
Shark got banned; however, that is just a small piece fitting into a bigger picture. I'm not at all going to talk about his ban. I'd rather focus on the greater issues. If one person is going to be banned for committing an infraction, then that rule applies to all, and no favorites.
I have never noticed a particular unfairness about the CL's approach to banning, and I have certainly never seen anyone who speaks his or her mind get banned.
I neither know who was banned or why, but I have seen Shark and Co gang up on certain users, however questionable they may have been, and relentlessly ban them and call them all sorts of names, and I feel the policy on this has been too lenient if anything.
Not that this is some sort of a playground or that I'm against free speech and all these bs arguments these people always come up with, but because unless you are a member of the bullying club, or entertained by rather uncreative and extremely repetative list of insults and wishes that the user in question go die, or perform sex acts to his own mother, father or a horse, being logged on here becomes a very negative and unenlightening experience for the rest of us.
And, yes, yes, we can all just use the ignore button or turn off public quick notes, but can't they also just stop acting like idiots or perform their antics somewhere else?
I find the CLs have generally acted very responsibly and under used the banning feature, if anything, and I see the need for not policing the site, but balancing that with the fact that a user agrees to the TOS and then is caught breaking them should be banned. I am sure if people find definite examples of other people breaking said terms and email such examples to the CLs they will be looked at, although why one should feel the need to do that is beyond me.
cheers
-B
I'm of the oppinion that the cl's do their best as vollintiers for the website. They can not see everything that goes on, and that if it bugs you so much should be brought to them. They're not here 24 hours a day and are not baby-sitters. Uniformity is great, but they can only react to what they have proof of. They are not nazis. I think they try their best and do a pretty good job. just imo.
I was not disputing that they do not do a good job. I'm sure they are dedicated to what they do. It is just that I seem to notice partialities, and so do many others. i'm the only one brave enough to speak about it. If time is an issue, perhaps, they could take turns? There are many ways something like this could be addressed. All i'm saying is there needs to be reform as to how people are dealt with and that rules should not only apply to some but to every single solitary member on this site who has signed up and agreed to follow the Terms. That is all.
And wildebrew, I agree with you one hundred percent about the bullying. I've spoken my piece about it many times in the publics, as well as to Chris N. It has gotten out of hand and needs to stop. It is running people off the site and to some, they feel afraid to communicate in fear of being judged. Furthermore, bullying and utter disrespect pushes people over the edge, as it can only be tollerated for so long.
Yes, there is an ignore feature, true, but also the leaders of this community have an obligation to keep people like these in check so the atmosphere is harmonious to all.
If people bully people, then there needs to be action in handling such inidividuals. If people sexually harass people, they also need to be dealt with very harshly, especially since sexual harassment is a criminal offense. Certain members like to target new ones very strongly in the sexual department, and some may not know how to cope with or deal with such a thing well, as they could have had something in their past happen of that gruesome and disgusting nature that could be brought to the surface. Such members who engage in said activities should be banned permanently. I do not take sexual harassment lightly, if you have noticed. Furthermore, people like that are not welcome to my groups.
I will not criticize the CL's. What I'm saying is that things could be done differently and be improved.
this is just me speaking as a user of the site, but oppinions will abound
At that point in time where does it cut off? Bullying is face it part of the zone. When does it go from making a good community to having a play ground atmosphere.
Chris N Chelsea said I'm an ugly cow.... you get how quickly that can get out of hand.
This is supposed to be free speech there fore it's where to draw the line, as for the sexual thing. Do you go on a bus or out to a bar expecting everyone to watch to make sure someone doesn't grope you. If you have issue with it you need to take appropriate actions. aka ignore them, and then if they somehow persist they're breaking the tos anyway. The cl's are looking out for the majority of things that they can, but if people have issue with it they can deal with it. Aren't we all over the age of 13? Does this not mean that we decided to come here and deal with what gets put our way. Either ignore them or if you think it's the tos can't you email a member of staff then even if they aren't here you can share the proof. If nobody knows they're not going to fix it. I don't know what's said in publics because I usually don't have them on, but do you think that the cl's come on the website and catch up with what everyone had to say about everything? Some how I doubt it.
I find it odd that so many sensible people don't take some time to think a bit more clearly about the job the staff do. i believe that much if not every situation that needs a ban is reported on the staff list, that if there is considered any level of personal feeling involved in a decision it is discussed, sometimes a group decision may be taken by 2 or more of the staff, and I've even known bannings reversed because other staff felt it was an unfair ban. To suggest that any one member of staff acts with personal feeling is unfair, and I wonder why they continue to do the job under such criticism. Maybe it just means they cair more than most do, and are able to ignore the opinions of those who's friends have been banned.
Mrs. M. I'm not advocating a playground atmosphere. What I am advocating is that things do not get out of hand. Sure, there is free speech, but things do cross a line. I've expressed my opinions, if i say too much more, I'll be beating a dead horse. Everyone is free to express what they believe about it, as it is every person's right.
Aah, so everyone is free to grope MissesEm on the bus, she'll just ignore it, heck, can they sleep with her too on the bus or elsewhere?
Calling someone a fat cow is one thing, telling that person to go kill him or herself is another or call that person a fat cow every single day and whenever they log on, do you know how old it gets?
I don't foresee ever getting involved or caring either way, if me or I friend of mine gets banned I'm sure people have their reasons for doing so.
That aside, I guess a more particular sample of what is allowed to go on, or who is allowed to do it while other people aren't, should be pointed out, but then in private to CLs, if one feels so strongly about it. I am certainly not advocating singling out users on this board, rather negative and pretty boring, it'll end up with 300 posts, freedome of speech, ignore button and so on and so forth talk.
I have no idea how anyone can be bothered to be a CL on here, to be honest, but I am glad there are people willing to do that dirty work.
Cheers
-B
Round and round and round we goes. Where we stops? Nobody knows. I swear we’ve been through all this before, when Garret was banned last year and then again when Buster Joe left. Surely the CL’s do a fine job overall. They can never make everyone happy since each of us has our own opinion of what’s acceptible and what isn’t. Obviously none of us like seeing our friends banned but often in those cases we only look at the situation with one eye, so to speak. The CL’s can only enforce bans if a user directly goes against the terms of service, and not if a user says or does something that another user doesn’t like.
According to the disclaimer: “Please note that we prefer not to censor our members thoughts, and believe in freedom of speech. There are options to ignore most forms of communication if you choose not to participate, and we encourage you to make your own decisions as to what you view as acceptable content. We are not your parents.” Why is it that instead of using the ignore feature, so many people like to kick up a fuss? The CL’s aren’t here to police every little thing that goes on here.
well said stevo, and totally agreed!
well said most of the poster here, specially donkey. i guess, the point is, cls just doing their job. their're human over all, and i must say, most time, they respond accordingly to the needs and the nature of this website.
what can we ask for more? as far as i concern, none of the cl is in a paied posission, and none of them hold any ground to be biased against a particular user.
we can comment this and that, but to be frankly, when you have nearly 10000 members, or about 5500 that is active, with only 5 cls, thats only that much you can do as a cl.
none of the cl is full timer on zone, which is pretty much expected, as everyone of them have a life to live, other than zone, either uni, work, or other day to day duties.
in a user prospective, i guess the point is respect each other in a respectful way. if you don't invade other's business, or others personal space, there's no reason or whats ever that you will end up in one of the band list.
just like how we live as a person, there's always consiquences on what we do and how we reacts to certain things and issues. even though zone is an online community, there should no different than a normal community.
well the thing that i know reina is getting at is that plentty of people post the same shit but yet once someone one of the cl's don't like then they get ban after all shouldn't it be fair for all. since this is a adult community then should everyone includeing the cl's act as so to. it just seems like 2 or 3 people can get away with murder and others get ban before the warrning of any shape or form . this is truely bull shit and i know this for a fact because a couple years ago i got ban for typeing something that i didn't mean to type but i stil got ban there were plentty of people typeing the same thing to crash jaws and they never got ban for it. so i feel that if one gets ban for something then everyone else should get band also. it shouldn't be a select few that catch hell because of something that others are also posting about...
any ways. i am done.
Regards,
well, i guess, everyone now that try to type something that crash jaws it will banned for sure. as i said, cls are human over all, but i do think they usually stay as mutral as they can in matter regarding users...
i guess, still the key, respect. be respectful for others, but at the same time have fun. have a bodder line between respect and cross someone's personal space.
To paraphrase a very old saying, "The Zone Immitates Life." I think the CL's and Admins of this site do a thankless job as B said, and whiel the TOSs' are important and need to be adheered to, it us up to each of us to exercise judgement. When I'm in the mall, I don't let the obnoxious teenagers who are making noise get the best of me, and I don't comment on the loud cellphone conversations I hear on busses. I ignore them. Obviously for more serious, offensive, illegal infractions, I might say or do a little more. I think the CL's have a difficult job in terms of balancing leniency with the TOS.
hLou
The cl's on here respond to things we see while we're logged in or that get reported to us. but we can't be logged in all the time. Hense some people getting away with breaking the few rules we actually do have here. If you really think someone is crossing the line, especially if none of us are logged in, you need to let one of us know. We only can even look at situations that we know about. And honestly, the rules around here are pretty short and not that restrictive. You really have to work to get yourself banned around here. Or at the very least not read the terms of service. Which are very short, and are in rather plain English, unlike most other license agreements or terms of service you'll find. So as far as that goes, I don't have much sympathy for you if you don't read them.
I really don't think there's a favorites problem around here. For myself I know I've had to deal with both people that I, on a personal level, both like very much, and don't like much at all. But I step back, and deal with the situation irregardless of my personal opinion. I've had to warn or ban people I rather like a lot. Also there're plenty of people that I may not think highly of at all, but as long as they follow the rules (to the best of my knowledge), I'm not going to give them any problems. Also, when I give ou a ban, always tell the person that they're free to protest it to myself or an admin. There have been cases when, after hearing what someone has to say, I decide I was wrong. And I frequently consult my fellow cl's if I'm unsure about something. We all do so.
*shrugs* There you have my 2 cents. Though I feel very safe in saying that all of my fellow cl's would agree with me on these points.
short stuff i am sorry that you feel that we ban people just because we dont like them. That is so far from the truth. I also leave the same challenge open to you that I have others. give me about dates and time and who it was and i will gladly go look them up and see if in fact it is the same thing.
also as i have said the staff boxes have not been flooded by you or anyone else reporting such infractions. It seems to always been brought up after the fadct.
doug
I agree whole heartedly with Miah regarding post 19, i couldn't have said it better.
Wow, short stuff, how did you accidentally type the word that crashes Jaws, it's not a word one tends to type accidentally, like pink aardvark or pretty peachy piggy.
While I do agree with everyone here for the most part, I do have one question for Miah. Maybe its an automatic email that gets sent out, but I still have no idea why I was banned for a week. I tried contacting via twitter, and through another user on the site, to ask you why I was banned for a week for supposed illegal content. While I am glad that it was only for a week, I would still like to know in what topic I posted that content. I did contact the zone through the contact link that pops up when you try and log in if your account is banned, but heard no reply. And before you start wondering whose account I logged in as, I did not do that. I asked this person through IM to ask Miah the same questions I am asking here.
I have to echo what was asked in post 22. How do you "accidentally" type a word that crashes Jaws? It's not like the crash words are words you use in everyday speech.
It amuses me that this always gets started up because someone gets banned, and their friends get pissed off. Did it ever occur to these people that, just possibly, their friend got banned for a good reason; and also, that the CL's can only take action on situations that they either witness or are notified about.
Wb, no it's not ok to groap me on a bus. That is unless the person is a fan of mace, but I'm also not going to sue the driver because he let the creep on the bus. In the same sence I'm not going to blame a cl for not banning someone because they did something and got away with it. If i told the cl and they took no action at all and it continued then I might be a bit upset, but the point I was trying to make is that if people have issue they need to deal with it and not just keep letting it go on. ignore or if it breaks tos tell one of the friendly peops that can deal with it. sorry it could be interpreted that I was ok with crude behavior.
Mrs. M, thanks for explaining your point better above me. Your position on matters is more clearly understood.
Okay, I must've missed something in here or something that happened last night, but I completely understand about banning someone. I was an assistant manager of another group before MSN lost their groups sights and ours had to move and then became inaccessible for the blind. We only banned people for specifically breaking the few rules we had such as pornographic matterials, harassment and things like that. It was a group for writers so if someone posted something with strong language and sexual content, we asked they post a notice in the title because we had people under 18 on the site.
I think the managers here are doing their jobs as to banning and it seems that the person that is banned might be banned for a reason and their friends get pissed off about it. I think if people have problems with others, there is the ignore feature on here or turn off all QN so you don't get any and if the problem continues, then specifically contact the staff with the messages that were sent including date and name of sender so the staff can take appropiate actions.
This site states that the managers aren't our parents and they do was to allow free speech, so each person's view on that is different and each person needs to do what they feel is their own appropiate action.
I have been annoyed by someone on here and I chose to use my ignore feature.
We all have choices, but we should all think a bit more rastionally before writing on here or including certain things in our profiles. Remember your profile is public so if you don't want people contacting you through your email addresss, don't put it up there.
Use common sense when posting and replying and use your options when someone crosses the line and remember the line is different for each person.
aspie geekwoman
grow up. this is a middle school conversation being perpetrated among adults. I'm surprised that a ceo acts in this manner.
when ever the "every body feels" or "everybody knows" card is getting played I naturally get suspicious. I don't know a mr. mrs. or miss everybody. Usually when an action, emotion, or whining gripe is attributed to this mythic massive swell of agreement it is because the person complaining doesn't have the gumption to admit that they have a problem. So since the all consuming everybody doesn't exist, i'm sure privately providing names of the people you view as favorites to the cls would give you far more credibility.
You have only been on this website a short time. For the past two and a half years I've had the pleasure of being a member, I've been most impressed by the caliber of leadership we have.
Periodically, there are requests for cl candidates. Instead of whining and moaning, next time this occurs, put your money where your mouth is and apply. You might be surprised that the job is a whole lot more involved than you think. As my mom used to say "don't bit** unless you have a solution."
Potentially offensive opinions ahead, skip at your leisure:
I'm personally of the opinion that many of you who complain about authoritative actions are children who've never grown up, or were coddled in some way or another due to your condition. You fail to respect those who execute rules that were set in place even before your existence. Instead, you'd rather praise your friends' rights, uplift their merits, while ignoring their mistakes. You don't care that they might've been reprimanded justly and with due cause. You simply care that the offending party is your friend, and by proxy can do no wrong, and surely it must be the misguided authority's fault for any infractions upon you or your acquaintance.
Truth be told, the Community Leaders have been more than lenient with most of the overt breaches of the ToS here on the Zone. This is going to happen, for they are but humans who, whether you can believe it or not, do not spend their every waking moment observing the site for infractions. They do not react simply because Bob says Joe pissed in his cereal, nor do they simply deal out punishments as they so choose.
And with such blatant rule-breakers as there are on the Zone, I'm quite impressed that they've managed to maintain the decorum that is evident in their proceedings. Plenty of Zone BBS users are content to continually break the rules, thinking themselves above and beyond the system. I remember a while back when people were sending fake system messages out of sheer spite for the ToS, exclaiming things such as "I don't give a fuck" or "They can ban me if they want to". Yet, it is these very people who will then turn around and raise contention at the status quo, when the reins are pulled tight and they are forced from their canter.
We're all a bunch of adults (yes, even those of you who aren't 18 yet, for you are considered young adults). It's about time we began to act accordingly. Leave the middle school antics behind, abandon the high school drama of he said/she said, forego the grade school necessity for always being right!
If you've done wrong and broken the ToS, take your punishment in stride. It's one damn week without access to the Zone, folks. Heaven forbid your lives should be so adversely affected by such a limitation! In a week you'll be back to torment us anyway, so quit bitching about whether the CL's did you wrong or not. Think, instead, on how you broke the ToS, and how you might in future avoid such an eventuality, if indeed accessing the Zone is *that* important to you.
In my experience, Community Leaders have always been helpful and courteous, in an environment that does not always merit such qualities. They'd helped me when I've had questions, they've taken proper action when I (with adequate proof) reported another user's infraction, and they've never done me ill. This is not because I have a special friendship with any of them, or that I am a favourite. I am, at best, an acquaintance to the CL's, and yet I've never come under fire. Why? Because I actually read the ToS and stay within their guidelines.
I don't make that statement to toot my own horn, but rather to make a point. If you expect to have a pleasant time on the Zone, and do not wish to endure such life-altering bannings, simply follow the bloody rules. You're all grown-up enough to understand why rules are made, and literate enough to understand what the rules are. There is no excuse whatsoever.
Kai
Kai Raises an interesting point there, if people shut up and endured the initial ban, they'd be back in almost no time, and able to annoy many of those they did so previously. It amaises me at the number of people that can't cope with a week away from the site, and so atempt to create a duplicate account, or appear on zbp on someone elses account, thus causing far more work for the Staff, and also making their ban even longer if not perminent. We don't have to agree with the rules, simply live within them. It's not terribly difficult to do. I've annoyed and upset many people on this system over the 5 or 6 years i've been here, and yet never apparently broken the rules enough to warrant a ban, so if I can be considered by some one of the more annoying members, and yet still avoid banning, I'm sure the rest can.
Raith, this post is written in response to you, as well as to other claims made on the thread. I’ve been too busy today to take the time to write out a well thought out response. I’ve got a lot of catching up to do with company work, and I’m dealing with some health issues.
I’m glad that you speak your opinions. And I do not find them offensive. After all, you are a member of this site, thus you have an equal voice like the rest of us.
When I made such complaints, it was not because of a friend getting in trouble. I thought that I should clear up that misconception right now. If my friend did something stupid and unfavorable, I’d admonish him the same as I would an enemy because I have high standards, and there are things that I will not accept—from anyone. If people dislike that, that is their issue, not mine. I know who I am and what I stand for, and I have the backbone to stand for those convictions. I’ve disowned friends throughout my life for certain infractions, even if I knew them for all my life because they were doing things that I was very much against, so this should show how important my standards are to me.
I’m not about the he said she said bull crap. I don’t listen to hearsay at all. I go straight to the sources for the information that I need. I know how people can be. One person can turn a thousand against another and smear a person’s reputation and drag them through the mud until they are coated, hence the reason I go straight to the source and give each person a chance to prove him or herself. I would not care if everyone knew someone as a whore. The fact of the matter is, I do not know that person and because I’m against hearsay, I’m going to take the time to personally get to know that person for who he or she is, not by what others say. If the hearsay was right, then I go back to the crowd to confirm it and tell my experiences. If the hearsay was wrong, again, I face the crowd and tell them how wrong they were.
The things that have bothered me was that people seemed to get away with saying some things and doing things that have no business being said or done, thus crossing the line severely. No, I’m not promoting a playground or preschool atmosphere, and it is quite silly to suggest that I would insinuate such a thing; but since taking things out of context seems to happen quite often here, I can expect my viewpoints to be misconstrued as other than what I was stating. All I’m asking for is a community where there is a bit of order and respect and leaders to see that it gets done. We cannot have a place without rules or order. All societies have rules, thus here is no different, especially if this site is supposed to imitate real life. The outside world is not a playground; however, there are rules that are established in order to maintain social order so that things can run smoothly and not become treacherous.
And of course, the CL’s do not spend every waking moment on the site. That is so unrealistic. Some, like me, do have a life outside of this place that includes families, a fulltime job, and other obligations. I’m the moderator of a couple of groups, and I do know how it can be. However, if I see something that is bad enough to call for a banning, I’ll do that no matter if it is friend or foe. And believe me, not everyone in my groups is my friends. I have people there who hate me, literally hate my guts, and this is due to their own various reasons. Yet, I’d still treat them the same as I would a best friend I'd known all my life, as far as rules are concerned, because I have a duty to fulfill, and that duty must be fulfilled no matter what.
The lesson that I’ve learned from being a CEO is that when it is time to fulfill duties, nobody is your friend. Nobody at all. It is about business, and one must step back and separate oneself from the situation. One cannot be ruled by their emotions. One must be detached in order to remain fair and impartial. Do you people seriously think that everyone in my company is my friends? No. Some actually disagree with me, but that does not matter. The fact is, I’m their overseer, and they are there to do a job. I can’t care about whether or not they are my friend. My workers are there to do a job, and if they cannot handle their responsibilities, or if they commit a violation, then something is done about it. Being a CEO has taught me many lessons about the fulfilling of duties and life in general.
Everyone can interpret what I say as they want, as that is everyone’s right also. However, this is what I have to say. And raith, I like how you made your point. Not only is it very well written, it is truthful and needs to be put out there.
P.S. My personal encounters with the CL’s, I must say have been nothing but positive.
turricane, thanks very much for your contribution to this discussion. As I'm a major fan of providing substantial proof for the claims that I make, I'm in the process of having an exchange with one of the CL's as we speak. Because of my recent diagnosis, and due to being not myself for the past couple of weeks, I've been busy dealing with a lot and playing catchup. Nonetheless, I'm putting together the proof that I need to back up all that I've said, so my statements are not airless, thus on the same level as a middle or even high school aged child. It is going to take me more time than I'd like, as there are other priorities that take precedence; however, it will be done, nevertheless.
I've been wanting to bring this to attention for quite some time now, but i just have not because I have kept putting it off. Since it is widely being talked about, it has fueled me to do so while this issue is still hot and fresh.
As far as being a manager of a site, I definitely am. I have a support group for incontinence sufferers that I head and moderate, and I'm also working on Blink Nation along with the administrators, a site similar to this one but different, since it is a social network set up similar to FaceBook but for the blind. I indeed know what the challenges are, thus have stated so numerous times in this thread. Somehow, that is being missed, as people seem to read what they want, thus taking things out of context. While I cannot control what others do, i can control what I do, speaking in a truthful and respectful manner.
well the word i typed was h aposstrivey re and i ment to type here but my hand slipped and i hit the (') instead of the e thinking i typed here i sent it and got band. ok it is one thing to get band for 1 or 2 weeks but I don't think it is right for you to get band permently with out any rhyme or reason now if the person kept brakeing the tou's then they should be band permently but when it is a first time offence then it should be for the week or 2 not any more then that. well that is my opinion and i am not changeing it.
regards
music master91, I'll answer your question in a private message in a second, as we don't generally share the reasons for a ban. However, that does give me an opportunity to make something clear to those that may not realise it. When we send you an email from the site telling you that you're banned, you can reply to that email and it'll go to the staff member that banned you. Generally that is the best way to protest the ban, unless you choose to send an email to the admins.
Hello, all. I for one can say that we as CL's do the best we can, given the way the TOS is written, and with the information we have to go on. Reina, back to your original post, you're not going to get banned around here for expressing your feelings and opinions, even for bashing the staff. Nor do we ban people we dislike. If we did that, there probably would not be a Zone, between all of us. Smile.
Kai, you have one of the best written posts on here, and I commend you for it. Thanks for telling everyone how it is.
To the rest of you, we do the best we can to keep the Zone a place you'd like to be, and if you have a problem with one of us, then just come to us.
when you have a group of people running something, its never easy to make everyone happy.
its so easy for some of you to say oh just follow the rules this and that, but some cl's play it by the book, and other's let certain things slide. some give warnings, and others don't. its all different, and, you just gotta get used to it i guess. not to much you can do about that.
and for fuck sakes, if i have to say this one more fucking time!
if the cl's as a collective choose to ban someone, its not for nothing!
i'm sure if someones getting a permanent banning, everyones gotta agree on it, no?
and, i don't wanna fucking hear anything about fucking disrespect from some posters when they disrespect people themselves. fucking doubled standard bitches
fucking make me sick.
k byye
oh one more thing since i didn't read the whole thing before i posted the first time.
The things that have bothered me was that people seemed to get away with saying some things and doing things that have no business being said or done, thus crossing the line severely.
what would those things be dear reina?
please provide examples, because its simple to say there have been things said, he said this, she said this, but when you have no examples, no solid evidence to back up your claims, then your just talking for the sake of talking and filling up board topics.
byyye
wow crazy, that was certainly some post.
On another note: has cameran been effectively/permenantly banned?
Awe yes, yet, another episode of, as, the, zone, turns!!!
This place is truely better than the soaps.
aspie geek woman,
i am glad to hear that you are assembling proof to back up your assertions. that is a good thing. next time have the proof at the same time you make the statements. people will take you much more seriously. just a thought.....
turricane, thanks so much for the pointer. I'll keep it in mind for the next time.
I have to say I agree with kev, it never ceases to amaze me the people who seem unable to come on here for a week, and have to find ways to get on here. And I do think that someone who seems unable to live without going on a website should perhaps question whether they should take a step back anyway.
Secondly, I think that people lose sight of just how much they are allowed to get away with here. The actions, language, abuse directed at others, would almost certainly never be tolerated on most other community-type forums, and it is worth remembering that this is supposed to be a community, but given some of the abuse that goes on here it certainly doesn't have a community atmosphere.
And lastly, people say "use the ignore feature," but why should people have to? Yes the ignore feature exists to block people but that doesn't make it a red light for people to say and do what they want in the knowledge that if people don't like it, they can ignore it. If you walk down the street and a group of drunks are walking behind you swearing and hurling insults you could ignore it and walk on. but you shouldn't be subjected to it in the first place. The zone is no different.
okay, first i just want to make it perfectly clear, that i'm not saying any of what i'm saying cause i either like a person, or whatever, this is just how i feel. i agree whole heartedly that the CL's do a wonderful job on here, and, it's a thankless job to do. i don't kno how the hell they put up with all the bullshit that we as members throw at them, but they do. however, we could all make it a little easier on them if we ourselves did a little personal policeing of our own lives. meaning, take steps to decide for ourselves what we do and don't like. use the ignore feature, cause...well...that's what it's here for, right? also, i kno this is about banning, so i'll just say that i agree with some of the posters on here, CL's can't bee here 24 7, wich is why i mentioned the personal policeing in the first place.
if those drunks are walking behind you cursing swaring and doing whatever else, your being subjected to it whether you like it or not, and all you can do is walk on. meaning fucking deal with it!
either that, or call the 5 o if it means that much to you but... otherwise just shut up and walk awayyyy!
if you do have a genuin problem, with evidence, and that you kno breaks the tos, then a CL should kno about it. yes, if someone gets band, then they should take it, and not try and make other acounts to try and get back in, cause, that's just stupid, and this is after all, as some have already said, just a websight. it's not, and shouldn't be that big a part of a person's life. now, to this ban of Cam's. i'm not gonna say that he didn't diserve it, cause i actually saw what he wrote, but i also have seen worse being said on here, and it just been let slide. that's not the fault of the CL's, cause like i already said, they can't be here all the time. we may not agree with the banning of people, but rules are here to help keep things in order, just like in the real world. so i in no way, shape or form, think that i've ever seen anyone be band from here for no good reason. i may have thought that the way it was handled was a bit wrong, but if i knew the person that got band, they've always said that they understood why it happened. anyway, i'm rambling, so byyyyye.
I can tell you for sure that verbal abuse, bullying, sexual harassment among other things would in no way shape or form be tollerated on Blink Nation. And one of us will se it there if it happens and surely deal with it as we see fit. but I do agree, it is hard being a CL or an Administrator, especially when you have people doing what they did this morning on Blink Nation--flagging people's content as objectionable just to be vendictive. It was a total waste of my time, as I had to read through each flagged piece of content to be sure if the flagging was legit or not. Turns out only two were. UG!
believe it or not, this is my final thought until i get another one. this is a community. in a town or city there are people we don't like and places where we may feel uncomfortable. In a community we don't go where we feel unsafe, we ignore those we don't care for, and we should do our best to act respectfully and responsibly. Freedom without boundaries is the ultimate expression of selfishness. So keeping that in mind we should treat others as we wish to be treated.
Thank God the zone isn't disney world. Although the language is sometimes not to my taste, I realize it is a valid way for others to express themselves. I ignore the words and concentrate on the feelings whichcaused them and the point being made.
In conclusion, if we feel uncomfortable on this site we have three choices. we can fight, ignore, or discuss. it's up to us not the cls, the man in the moon or whatever.
If there are drunks walking behind you, throwing insults and swearing at you, your options are limited. No, it's not right; but there's no law that says a drunk person can't walk down the street insulting someone. So you can ignore them, go in a different direction and hope they don't follow, or tell them to fuck off (and then see how ugly that gets).
Nobody wants to deal with being harassed or bullied. But sometimes, even in the real world, we have to deal with it. You can't call the police just because you're being bullied, and the same thing works on this site. You either take a stand or ignore it. I'm not saying that bullying is right or okay, but it happens. It's a part of life, on and off the Zone.
True, brooke. That is very correct. But when it gets completely out of hand, that is when the powers that be need to be consulted.
As I said before, being a manager or assistant manager is a difficult job and most of the time thankless and you get a lot of acusations without any proof. If someone on here has a problem, take it to the staff and don't just complain to the whole community about it, but make sure you have proof or the accusation is unfounded. Don't bug the staff unless it is a real problem because they have enough to do without babysitting kids who can't play nice or go play in a different area. If someone gets banned, there was probably a reason for it and the banned person has the right to appeal that decision. Shut up, take your punishment like, and learn to behave like. Managers have a lot of other things to do besides checking out every little complaint. They have to maintain the site, manage boards, sheck memberships, watch for bugs or hackers, and much more. I learnt this when I was a manager and I know how many unfounded complaints managers can get. This is like a regular town in the real world and not everyone gets along in a town and not everyone will here either.
kai? let me just start off saying that I love you! :d best post ever, and i totally agree!
In a community, in life, not all things are perfect. Especially on a community website like this. Not everyone is satisfied, people always thinking they no the best solution, or always complaining bout one thing or another. I think kai kai said it all, but seriously, grow up, and just deal with the fact that there are rules to follow, and if your friend or whatever gets banned, well, they obviously did something wrong.
Personally, I don't even know how you CL's deal with all this shit coming your way! If I were you, I'd have already banned everyone! :p
But honestly, stop thinking that things are gonna be perfect. Stop thinking that the world is a peaceful place.
Like brooke said, there will always be bullying, there will always be mean people, hell, there will always be zoners who get banned for one thing or another. They'll always be rule breakers. So why don't you just swallow that, and stop thinking that everything you want or would like will be handed to you in a platter. If you don't like how the Cl's do things round here, or you think most of them are being partial, well, there's always other blindy sites out there to join.
Now cut the shit and go get a reality check, cause seriously, this is life!
right, I'm out! :d
Kia-
kai and kia, best said of all.
one thing may i suggest to drop down on the TOS for any user is if they want to be damn serious on zone, they have enter to the hell not the zone. lots of people take thing said in public qn too seriously, and often they are the one that get offended easily.
of course, by saying so, doesn't mean that user can abuse other user without consiquence, but, yet, most time, fights or arguements or dramas happen because people got offended too easier on zone.
hey, we're not kids, or at least i thought we aren't, we should able to differentiate what is right and wrong, what is joke and serious, instead of acting like a kid, and wanting everyone to play the way we play, or be as serious as we are in all time.
this is a community, just like all other community, people come, people go. if you agree to stay, be nice, not only to others but to yourself. if you can't follow the rules, there's the door just behind me, you're free to exit, and return when you're well enough to play like an adult.
I think there have been some very interesting points put forward in this thread already but I'd like to offer a couple more observations to mull over, coming from the point of view of somebody who was a community leader here for 18 months but gladly! *Grin* isn't any longer.
It is important for all users to understand the process that is gone through before a user gets banned for a particular infraction. A key component of that process is a first banning and that is something that is often forgotten in the final analysis. You see, and I can't think of any examples from my time when this wasn't the case, a permanent banning was only handed out after somebody had committed an initial offense, was banned temporarily, came back, and then committed another offense. So permanent bannings in effect are only handed out after multiple infractions.
Now the reason that this is so important is because people tend to only consider the final banning when offering up criticism of how the site is run by the administration. For example you may see that (user X) has been banned for life for using a racial slur in quick notes while you may have also seen somebody else do the same thing just the week before and only receive a weeks ban. Automatically the assumption then is that the community leaders are unfairly victimizing one user over another. This though has, at least in my experience, never been the case because in all instances the permanent banning has only been issued because this is not a first offense. The point is that the everyday user does not see everything that goes on behind the scenes, though when you consider some of the accusations that have been thrown at community leaders over the years, you might be forgiven for thinking that it is the users that are in full possession of the facts and the staff that are kept hopelessly in the dark.
For one thing records of all account suspensions, regardless of reason or duration, are kept. So community leaders will know immediately whether or not any ban given should/could be a life time one or just temporary. For another, if a community leader is unsure of their position, then it is not uncommon at all for a lot of debating to take place behind the scenes before a collective decision is taken.
Community leaders do not show favoritism which is the underlying point of all this. They don't let one user get away with murder because they happen to be popular among the administration while allowing personal animosity to justify the banning of other users for the most minor of offenses. I don't make this claim out of any loyalty to the staff that I was once a member of either. I say it because it is fact. It's for exactly these reasons that there is a group of community leaders and not just one or two. That way if one member of staff is ever faced with a position where they have to make a judgment on a friend, that they then have others to turn too who can offer impartial advice and if needed, can step in and take over. It also means, as I've already stated that if you're ever unsure on what action is required, that there is a body of people that you can turn too for opinions.
The other point I wish to raise here is the very nature of the job that a community leader does because I think this is where a lot of the confusion lies. Let me start by giving an example of what I mean, without mentioning names obviously. not long after I became a community leader back in the summer of 2006 we had a persistent problem with a user. For reasons best known to themselves they repeatedly gave their password to a friend. Now every time this user and their friend fell out, which seemed to happen every two weeks or so, the friend would log into the Zone under this users account and post all kinds of things on the boards, on one occasion they claimed to be gay and were looking for a boyfriend, on another they gave out a mobile phone number and asked people to call for phone sex etc. etc. Now at the time I was new to the job and understandably enthusiastic so it kept falling to me as the community leader on the scene to deal with the fall out from these malicious postings, clearing up the boards, issuing warnings and so on. Now I let this slide for quite some time, I'm not exaggerating at all when I say that it happened 5 or 6 times over maybe an 8 week period before I finally gave up with warnings and banned the user in question for repeatedly ignoring my advice and the terms of service by handing out their password to another user. Now the one thing that will be immediately obvious to everybody familiar with the terms of service, is that I didn't follow them to the letter not at all. Certainly you could offer some criticism to me for that but my thinking at the time was that this user clearly was, for want of a better expression, a picnic hamper short of a nice day out at the park if you catch my drift. What other reason could they have had for repeatedly giving their password to somebody who would so spitefully then use that information against them.
What I'm getting at here, in my own rambling way is that it is necessary as a community leader to take into account everybody that you're dealing with as individuals and that is something that the terms of service can't do. By and large the terms are an absolute, but at various points within those terms latitude for objectivity is given and I think that is important. perhaps not all would agree with that point of view I don't know. But it's certainly how I feel.
You see to my way of thinking parts of the terms of service are clearly rules. But other parts are more guide lines than rules and that's an important distinction. In this instance the user was only harming themselves by their idiotic actions nobody else so while I would have been justified in banning them much sooner, would I have been doing the right thing?
It is truly a tough line to tread. On the one hand we don't want to ban people if it can at all be avoided but on the other, we don't want to foster a community in which bullying is the accepted norm. So at least next time any of you come to offer criticism or worse still, out right insults to the community leaders for the job that they so thanklessly do, at least try and consider what exactly they are doing before you speak.
Dan.
I am in full agreement with Miah in post 19. Also, Dan, (post 52), Thank you!
Dan, excellent job of describing what CL's go through. I hope the whiners are paying attention.
Reina, I appreciate your posts, because unlike some, you're not bashing the CL's, or calling them offensive names. However, since they are not logged in 24-7, and they don't see everything that goes on here, it is possible that someone might get away with something they shouldn't if nobody informs the CL's of what happened.
I also agree with many of the previous posts. I had a friend who was banned last year. (no names mentioned). This person was only banned for a week, but apparently, they couldn't handle that, so they created another account which also got banned, and then appeared on ZBP on more than one account. Now that friend is permanently banned. Is it that necessary to use another account rather than just waiting a week, especially since that certain person was able to identify the exact rule that was broken?
Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say here is that the CL's shouldn't have to write a 5000-word persuasive essay to everyone just because a certain person who was banned was "cool" or "popular". Has anybody ever noticed that when User X is banned, nobody raises a fuss, but when User Y is banned, we have multi page boards under almost every topic about it. If that person was that important to you, get their messenger info, Email, Skype, phone number, twitter username, ETC.
Ocean Dream. Totally Agree with everything you posted. bashing or being disrespectful will accomplish nothing. I've found that when I'm respectful, i get much further, hence the reason i try to be as such at all times. My encounters with the CL's have been quite pleasant, actually, because I treat them how I want to be treated. My thing is, if nobody has given me a reason to disrespect, I won't. If people treat me in an undignified way, trust me, they'll know about it. That is how I opperate. That plain. That simple.
Reina, I am totally behind you now, 100 %. Do I really need to bring it up? I don't think so. But for proof sake, I will. Just take a look under these two topics under let's talk:
BeWare of the Zone Degeneration x
Introducing the Zone Degeneration x.
Dan, that was probably the best post on this board, followed closely by Kai's. Thank you for putting into such great words and details what we go through. I'm the CL with the least seniority, I know, but I've been a part of the staff to see the things you described. I've had to warn friends before, and would have banned them, if need be. Or, I'd turn it over to another CL. Either way, we try to operate the best we can between all of us.
Right, these are my views on this subject so please respect that.
While I appreciate that the CL's, in many cases, do a good job, I must admit that some of my recent encounters have been rather unpleasant. But to get my opinions across, here is what I like to call my zone story:
When I first joined the Zone back in October last year, I had publics off and rarely posted on the boards; I just came on here for the games.
In December/January time I turned publics on just to see what it was like. And it wasn't too bad, though I didn't contribute much to publics.
In late January I started posting on the boards a bit more and started talking to more people; Things were still okay and the CL's were helpful (And Chris N responded very quickly to a bug I found which allowed any user to see email addresses of premium members; I must stress that this was a few months ago and the bug has now been fixed so email addresses are now safe).
But it was in February that things changed. I set up a phone pin and went on zbp for the first time. But when I went in to an active conference and was asked for my age, I got nervous and exited the conference in a panic. When I went back, they all started swearing at me and using abusive language. I must stress though that no CL's were in the conference.
Understandably I was a bit annoyed and decided to write about it in the rant section of the boards. The topic was called "My rant about zone bbs". Okay, so I may have been a bit harsh in that post, but it didn't deserve the responses it got (especially from the CL's). From that point on, a lot of the "popular" members and the staff have hated me and it was all because of one post!
But my worst experience with the staff was in April when the whole Degeneration X thing started and my account was hacked. When I approached a certain CL (while I won't mention which CL it was here, You can find it out on other topics), I was actually told to FUCK OFF!!!! Yes, you heard me, FUCK OFF!!!!! Also, this certain CL made offensive comments towards me in publics to deliberately make me look like a complete idiot and make the CL more popular. Plus, the CL (and other staff members) seem to support the other gang who hacked my account deliberately to show me up! It seems strange that the topic faraaz created about the zone degeneration x got loads of supportive posts towards him, yet a similar topic posted by me warning people about this gang (after my account was hacked) got very abusive and somewhat threatening posts.
But while i've had a bad experience with some of the staff, I have had some good experiences (especially before February) with Doug V: He appears, in my opinion, to have been the most helpful CL!
So while I may have said some things i've regretted, I feel that I haven't deserved a lot of the treatment i've had.
Okay, I appreciate this topic was for discussing the staff, but I thought i'd give you my zone story because in a way it is relevant to the staff.
Thank You
Might I mention that the so-called leader of this so-called degeneration x was banned?
Yes. I will agree that maybe the CL's could have looked into it a bit more, but this whole situation seems a bit ridiculous, if you know what I mean. You know, the usual drama that goes on around here, and like they have said, they are not our parents, nor are they here to babysit.
robby darling, being the nice and helpful person everyone knows me as i will answer your question about why your bullshitting and falsely accusing board topic about dx got insults and abusive posts and all while faraaz's not serious ironic one about introducing dx got supportive responses. actually i think i already gave an answer but let me explain better for your little self.
you randomly came out of nowhere with this degeneration x thing that you just made up accusing people of things they never did, without the smallest bit of proof,so obviously people didn't take very kindly to what you did. then faraaz made a quite funny and ironic, totally not serious board topic about degeneration x and since as i just said it was ironic and totally not serious, meaning he never did create a gang that hacks accounts and torments people and does all kinds of bad stuff just for the fun of seeing poor victims like yourself suffer and cry, then he got all this support. you, my sweet little robby snugglikins, make yourself look like an idiot without the help of any cl, gang leader or member, or any other kind of help you might get. you do the best job at that.
also as i just said in a couple of other topics... the dead shall rise again, etc etc...
I am absolutely sick of all this drama. All of it, and I'm sure the CL's are too. That's all I'm going to say.
So am I. But will it stop anytime soon? I doubt it.
Robert, it will stop if you stop posting such ridiculous topics. And Kai, Nehamiah and Harp did a great job of posting these opinions. I believe thatt what the CL's are doing is fair and that they are not playing favoritism. Take for example Cam. They banned him for a reason, and yet some people on here don't think it was fair because, "Cam should have gotten a warning before he was banned." But you see, he did all the stuff that he did repeatedly, from faking system messages to racial slurs. You can't tell me he wasn't banned unfairly.
So to the CL's, I commend you for the job you are doing, and I can understand that you go through a lot on here. Don't let anybody tell you all that you have been playing favoritism because that's not at all true. I've been here for a year, and throughout this time that I've been on here, I've never really seen any CL playing favoritism. For those of you who still think the CL's are being unfair, grow up. I know that that's a harsh thing to say, but it's the truth. And this also goes for Robert, who thinks he has all the power in the world. Perhaps the reason why the CL's have not been pleasant to you is because you keep whining about little things such as people cussing you out. You need to learn how to deal with that and work around that. This is real life.
And you know, I'm actually glad that this board topic was posted by Doug because I'm sure that would straighten some people out who think that the CL's are stupid. It's obvious that they aren't babysitters, and they can't ban every person who breaks the tos.
I must say I took one little comment earlier, and took it very seriously when I didn't know the credibility of the comment, nor the person who made it. As such, I posted a rather rude comment on here earlier that the CL's were playing favorites. Although I was merely agreeing with others, my opinion had no support behind it, so for that, I am sorry. My appologies go out to the CL's, and any other people I may have disrespected while I was making comments right and left without taking a second to think about their credibility.
It's the Zone, of course the drama will never stop. *Grin* As CL's, sometimes we can just sit back it and observe some of the ridiculous things that go on around here, other times we have to step in. Sometimes it's a hard line to know when to do what, or at least that's how it's been for me, as the newest of the CL's. But I do know that we try to be as fair as possible.